Fuzz about Google supporting odf

Since Google announced their new so called support for the open standard for documents; odf, there has been a lot of fuzz. And yesterday when the new version of Google Docs and Drive, there has been even more fuzz.




I'm happy that Google is finally implementing support for odf BUT... and there is a but:

Honestly I'm not impressed. I'm very disappointed.

First of all because the support comes way too late. Secondly because its not even close to be good.

Back several years ago Google was politically supporting the process of getting odf approved as an open standard but they never really bothered. The business was clearly to keep both odf and ooxml/docx out of their products and keep their own proprietary document format.

Implementing good and solid interoperability is actually not difficult but it is a huge task. Google could have done this three or four years ago if they wanted to. But they didn't. Both proprietary software vendors has been busy making interoperability difficult while the providers of true open standards has been improving interoperability month by month. 

What about the implementation?
I'm not impressed by the implementation. Not at all. First of all because it works differently between different browsers and computers. If you are running a computer with chromium OS or is using a Chrome browser you get the best result. You will experience pretty good results besides the lack of collaboration features like comments and change tracking. One would think that collaborative tools would be obvious for Google to implement as the first. Collaboration between users are one of Googles advantages over local installed software.

If you are using another browser (I have tried with Firefox) the core functionality works completely different. If you have odf-files in you Google Drive and opens them with Google Docs, you are actually not editing you odf-document, but a converted Google Docs document. And now you have two versions of the same document. Both claiming to be the same file because the new Google Docs document is claiming to be an odf-document (the name is still xyz.odt) but now in Google Docs format. And as a consequence the default download format is ... docx.

Please try again Google. And this time please support odf in stead of stealing documents from odf. And don't force users to use a specific operating system or browser. You make me think of the browser war between Netscape and Internet Explorer when websites was "Optimized for [insert browser brand here]".

I have been fooling around

I have been fooling around for a couple of days. 

Yes I admit it. From time to time I enjoy working with something totally different from what I do in my daily life and something that is absolutely irrational. This time I suddenly found my self playing around with ownCloud (https://www.owncloud.org ).

I found that I could launch a pre-configured cloud server on Amazon ( http://aws.amazon.com ) from Bitnami ( http://bitnami.com/stack/owncloud/cloud ).

It took me about half an hour to order and fire up the basic server and after another hour of configuration I had a safe and sound cloud server running. And it all comes in my native language (Danish) out of the box.

I wanted to install a few extra apps for different tasks e.g., a music player that for some reason isn't included in the standard edition of ownCloud 6. The only problem with that was that the music app depends on another apps 'App Framework'. Unfortunately that wasn't very clear in the instructions, and it took me a couple of hours to find the solution and implement it. I made another mistake by activating the app 'FluXX Compensator (Y)'. A friend of mine recommended it to me, but it seems to mess up ownCloud completely. It took me quite some time what caused the problem but when I found the cause it was pretty easy to disable it. I couldn't use the web interface (as it was messed up) but I could remove the app folder through SSH.

So now my family and I can store and share files in a relatively safe way. I know that Amazon might not be the safest place (in the Snowden years), but I somehow feel safer now where I son't have to use Dropbox or Google Drive. I don't like storing my private documents on a server that doesn't belong to me. 

Never mind.

I'n now using my ownCloud as family calendar completely sync'ed with my locally installed Thunderbird/Lightning. The only missing feature is the lack of inviting and accepting invitations directly in my mail and calendar program.

What I find extremely interesting is the way ownCloud can work with documents. First of all ownCloud supports WebDAV and I can open and save files directly from LibreOffice.

Open documents in LibreOffice

But more interesting is a new interesting feature in ownCloud 6: WebODF ( http://webodf.org/ )!

WebODF is a separate open source project that is a JavaScript implementation of the OpenDocument format. So far WebODF only implemented som very basic parts of text documents but its a nice first step. And a step in the right direction. I know that WebODF is working on a spreadsheet thing too and that's exiting.

Another extremely cool feature is that WebODF supports collaborative editing of rich-text documents. We are talking about two or more editors working on the same document at the same time.

Editing on line

WebODF is not a web version of LibreOffice but you can create and edit documents with basic formatting and styles. I even discovered that uploading a rather complicated ODT document from LibreOffice with a table of content and cross references works fine. Some visual features are visible in the browser version of the document, but even if not the unsupported features survives being edited with WebODF.

Conclusion

My conclusion is clearly 'enthusiasm'. I will certainly be using ownCloud as my private cloud server from now on and I can see some very cool ideas coming in the future. I'm exited about WebODF working with ODF documents using JavaScript and I can see many useful things to use it for. I can clearly see ownCloud useful for small business and e.g., schools and NGOs.

I give it a thumb up.

Victory

The Danish Parliament has decided to create a list of allowed standards. The standards MUST be implemented before end 2011.

The decision includes two important things:

1. ODF is on the list - OOXML is NOT!
2. New standards MUST live up to certain criterias, among others it must be fully inter-operable with existing formats (formats already on the list). Microsoft is therefor responsible for interoperability with ODF.

Ref: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=da&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.version2.dk%2Fartikel%2F13690&sl=da&tl=en

The Parliament said: ODF only

Today the Danish Parliament said ODF only for public administration. The Minister of Science doesn't agree, so he will ask the Minister of Finance for advice. The Government is afraid that the decision will be too expensive.

The MP's warns the Minister: If you don't do it, we will ask for a formal ballot in the Parliament and the Minister will then lose.

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=da&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.business.dk%2Fbrancher%2Fit-beslutning-saettes-paa-standby&sl=da&tl=en

The expert panel will be called in again

After a few weeks of a rather hot debate on Danish Internet media regarding the final report from the National Authority of Competition, the decision was made this morning: The Parliament told the minister of IT and Technology to call in the expert panel again.

The case is not yet closed!

This is a very important victory for the open source community, because three reports has recommended dual standards. The members of Parliament didn't take these reports as a vote. The members has surely listened to the critics of the reports and will not make a final decision based on reports of varying quality.

English translation:
http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=da&js=y&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.version2.dk%2Fartikel%2F11939-ekspertpanel-skal-atter-se-paa-dokumentformater&sl=da&tl=en&history_state0=&swap=1

Wanted: Did you integrate OpenOffice in your business application?

One of the most common oppositions we hear from IT professionals and business managers against shifting away from Microsoft Office is this:

We cannot change away from MS because we are using MS Office in conjunction with this and that application

• How difficult is it to integrate OpenOffice or ODF in an existing business application?
• Do any of you have actual experience doing it?
• How can we exchange knowledge and experiences on this matter?

Please give me comments

Norway: ODF is in - OOXML is out

The Norwegian government has made a clear statement in a new catalog covering data standards of various purposes.

Public enterprises should not use other file formats than ODF (version 1.1) and PDF as attachment at the exchange of documents by email. This rule will apply from 1. January 2011.

The Danish government is still working on a similar decision. A report from the Danish competition authority has been delayed. Unfortunately I fear that the Danish government will make a non-decision as usually like: "Each authority may decide for them selves". This will end up in a chaos with at least four different document formats (OOXML, ODF, legacy .doc files and PDF).

Source: Digi.no http://www.digi.no/817635/her-er-statens-nye-it-standarder

Sanders expert report is ready

Helge Sander, Danish Minister of Science and Technology earlier this year asked an expert committee to look into the technical and legal implications of the introduction of two standards for documents in the government. The report is now ready.

The committee consists of

• Professor dr. jur. Mads Bryde Andersen, University of Copenhagen (Chairman)
• Associate Professor Jens Hørlück, Aarhus University
• IT centerchef Jorgen Kristensen, Association of Local IT managers
• Professor Kim V. Andersen, CBS
• Professor Mogens Kühn Pedersen, CBS

The report is mainly a review and summation of said words in the matter and the committee does not take their own opinion. It seems a little disappointing, because the committee members probably could find something more meaningfull to do than to quote what others have said and written.

The only new topic the report brings to light is a recommendation of the PDF format for final documents. One detail that has previously been completely overlooked in the political debate. The few conclusions in the report is so vague that it is almost comical. Among other things, the conclusion is ...

In summary, the Committee believes that interoperability between ODF and OOXML continues to represent a challenge.

It is another way of saying ...

It is not possible to achieve full interoperability between OOXML and ODF. The two formats is simply not interoperabile.

It is, I believe so uncritical that it becoms self-contradictory in some areas. Among others the report includes Ramboll Management TCO reports quite indiscriminate, despite the fact that these reports are made on a critisized base and criticized by many. The reports from Ramboll are by many regarded as worthless. One of the TCO report's assumptions were that every document needed ten minutes to convert. A prerequisite as Ramboll Management itself points out is a very sensitive parameter: Changing this parameter just a little bit, will change the conclusion in the report.

Expert Committee's report emphasizes that the imposition of the PDF format for final documents will end up with only a small part of the existing documents should be converted. It disappoints me very much that the report does not identify that this observation makes TCO report by Ramboll Management inappropriate in context.

In addition, the ISO approval of OOXML is concidered as the final conclusion that the OOXML is an open and appropriate standard. This despite the fact that even Dansih Standards recognizes that the approval process was perhaps not completely clean and OOXML might not be quite as qualified as it seems.

The experts completely ignores the world around us. I believe that we in Denmark can't take such decisions without first looking around us. The countries which we usually compare ourselves with, may have been through similar problems. But the report is also completely ignoring this.

Repport from IT-og Teleagency : http://budurl.com/ekspert
Computerworld.dk: http://www.computerworld.dk/art/49464

Unfortunately there isn't an English translation, but you can try with Google Translate here: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fbudurl.com%2Fekspert&sl=da&tl=en&history_state0=

First, I didn't believe this: ODF support in MS Office

First my heart took two extra jumps. Then I had to get my breath back. Computerworld in Denmark claims that Microsoft will announce support for ODF in 2009. This should be a part of Office service pack 2. The announcement should be public tomorrow morning.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.computerworld.dk%2Fart%2F45934&hl=da&ie=UTF8&sl=da&tl=en

http://www.sdtimes.com/content/article.aspx?ArticleID=32228

Behind or ahead

Clarifying versions:

OpenOffice.org 2.0 - 2.3.1	ODF 1.0	Approved by ISO
OpenOffice.org 2.4	ODF 1.1	Has not submitted to ISO for approval
OpenOffice.org 3.0 (upcomming) - ?	ODF 1.2	Under development

The problem with Alex Browns validation test (http://www.griffinbrown.co.uk/blog/PermaLink.aspx?guid=f0384bed-808b-49a8-8887-ea7cde5caace) is, that he is using a document from OpenOffice.org 2.4 and validates it against the ISO-approved standard. Jesper Lund Stocholm claims (http://idippedut.dk/post/2008/04/Conformance-of-ODF-documents.aspx) that he has created some documents with various versions of OpenOffice.org that doens't validates correctly. From my knowledge, Jesper hasn't put any documentation to support witch validation method he used nor put forward the bespoken documents. He has not even told us the seriousness (number of errors) of the 'variations'.

ODF file format is maintained by a technical committee under OASIS (http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=office). Members of the committee are developers and managers from Sun Microsystems, IBM and many other companies (http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/membership.php?wg_abbrev=office) and it is in fact OpenOffice.org and StarOffice, that is 'pulling' the development, because OpenOffice.org happens to be the project ahead in development. OpenOffice.org comes with about four releases each year. A standard specification is not work from an office desk, but experience from real world development. Therefore the technical development will be a little bit ahead of the specification work and approval. Thats how standard specifications are developed.

When the specification is ready from OASIS, it can be submitted to ISO for approval. One important condition for ISO approval is "multiple implementations". It's a question about the hen and the egg. The specification can't be approved if it hasn't been implemented and now we are been criticized for implementing it before it's approved. That doesn't make sense.

Both the standard and the programs are simultaneously developed over time. The question is, if we should make a choice in the program, that makes it possible to 'Save as...' ODF 1.0. This is of cause possible but not that simple. But should we develop OpenOffice.org according to what the users need or what the politicians need ? Probably both. But an extra 'Save as' option could do more harm than good, because it would confuse users. Nevertheless, this problem will be taken care of in OpenOffice.org 3.0. Another problem is, that higher ODF versions contains much more information and is of better quality. There is no need to use any ODF versions lower than the latest, except of cause, the ISO stamp.

So what's the difference between Microsoft/OOXML and OpenOffice.org/ODF ?
The difference is, that Microsoft Office is behind OOXML. OpenOffice.org is ahead of ODF. According to the ISO rules, a specification can only be approved as an ISO-standard, unless it has been implemented.

ODF works

From www.odfworks.com

Yes Minister, we have a problem

From January 1th. 2008 all Danish authorities should be able to receive text files of in the formats ODF and Docx. One of the Danish internet based computer magazines decided to find out if the municipals could live up to the resolution from the Danish Parliament. (http://www.computerworld.dk/art/43939). The headline is 'Danish municipals flunk on open standards'.

The result is very disappointing, I must say.

First of all, the journalists send three e-mails to each municipal. One with an ODF file, one with a docx file and on e-mail with plain text. The first astonishing thing is, that quite many municipals never answered to any of the e-mails, not even the one with plain text.

Hey Minister, how can you expect the authorities to be able to receive attached files if they don't know how to open and answer a plain text e-mail ?

We have a problem here...

Now, how about the attached files ?

• 31 municipals answered, that they are not able to read an odf file
• 13 municipals answered, that they are not able to read a docx file
• Several municipals answered, please send us the document as a doc-file.

The opposition parties says that this is a serious matter (http://www.computerworld.dk/art/44003). Headline: 'The Minister must see to this matter'

The Minister has been asked to (officially) answer to this in the Parliament (http://www.ft.dk/doc.aspx?/samling/20072/spoergsmaal/s546/index.htm).

Minister, we certainly have a problem.

The problem, Minister, is not that the whole world is laughing at the Danish solution. The problem is, that we can't even live up to our own promises. Thats a worth a laugh.

ODF Alliance answer to Burton Group

The very famous report from Burton Group is very friendly to Microsoft:
http://www.burtongroup.com/Guest/Pdf/WhatsUpDOC.pdf

ODF Alliance answers back:
http://www.odfalliance.org/resources/BurtonGroupResponseFinal.pdf

Another financial report from Ramböll Management

The Norwegian newspaper TU (http://www.tu.no) claims that the Norwegian adoption of open standards and open source software will be very expensive. The article (Norwegian): http://www.tu.no/it/article129909.ece. The conclusion comes from a report done by Ramböll Management based on calculations of the amount of documents that has to be converted.

Ramboll Management - Don't we recognize that company name ?

Yes we do. This is the exact same company that made two similar reports in Denmark last year. Here they also claimed, that the costs will be huge and the benefits will be small. Also then (last year in Denmark), Ramböll Management could only come to a negative conclusion because they think that the authorities will continue to use (and buy) Microsoft software. Basically Ramböll takes only the costs and claims that the benefits will never come.

How about asking someone else next time. To me, this sounds like a fotocopy of the Danish report of last year.

Shame

I'm ashamed that the Danish democracy (The Parliament; Folketinget) can appear so little creditable, that the country is at laugh to our neighbors (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/12/12/danes-set-open-standards-trial). A decision in the Parliament has within a year and a half been reduced to nothing. It's not worth the ink.

It started so well in 1996, the parliament agreed (with no votes against it) to support a definition of open standards: It must be real open!

The next year it appeared that one or two local IT-managers couldn't live up to the "Readiness for changes" mentioned in his resume. The MP's got cold feet because they were afraid of criticism. All the good and innovative thoughts was completely killed by low practical questions and fear of the unknown.

Originally it was agreed that the final solution (end 2009) should be based on evaluations regarding influence on the competition and innovation and not (only) from practical decisions regarding interoperability (even that is important).

Before the election for Parliament last year, there was no limits to the promises from the political parties. Almost all political parties was agreeing on one and only one standard. ODF. But of cause I am naive.

The political parties behind the original proposal B 103 is bragging about how Denmark is ahead of other countries regarding the use of open standards.This is absolutely not the truth. We Danes (the parliament) made a decision in 2006; and if that decision is implemented as it was decided; yes we would be ahead. But unfortunately the implementation does not live up to the original word nor spirit. Please have a look at this report from the ODF Alliance, listing several countries and their opinion on open standards and how it's being implemented. http://www.odfalliance.org/resources/AnnualReport2007.pdf

Meeting in the Parliament today

Apparently there has been a meeting in the Parliament today about dual standards. The discussion was among other topics about how to determine the result of the test period next year. The Minister of IT- and Science Helge Sander proposed to ask an independent external consultant to make the conclusions. This proposal was *not* approved by the Parliament.

They agreed on a loose approach to announce a group of independant experts supported by an external consultant.

The group shall evaluate the interoperability between ODF and OOXML and further more evaluate if there shall be only one document format in the future.

The 'Conservatives' wants only one format. They have no idea about what standard that should be.

The 'Labour' is awaiting answers from the experts before they make up their minds. As they say: "We will ask the experts about that".

The 'Liberal' sees no problems in making a single format choice. They also awaits answers from this group of experts.

The final decision is expected next summer.

Source: http://www.computerworld.dk/art/43612

This is quite mysterious because a few months ago, the Parliament agreed to ask the The Danish Competition Authority to be the leader of such investigation on behalf of the Parliament. And during the election last year, almost all political parties (all except the liberals) was pro single standard and ODF as the one.

ODF Alliance Newsletter

ODF Alliance Newsletter
20 December 2007

You can sign up to receive the free newsletter or download a PDF version: http://www.odfalliance.org/mail_list.php.

Lotus Notes to OpenOffice,.org integration

I was trying to help my Norwegian colleges find out why our Lotus Notes to OpenOffice.org integration didn't work properly. I have used several hours figuring out what the problem was.

Of cause field mapping must be accurate and in this case it's also case sensitive. And of cause: all required data must be available in the Notes-document.

Hokus pokus. It works.


Here is a movie that shows how it works

Clean ODF implementation IS realistic

Jesper Lund Stockholm has posted this comment to my blogpost about the implementation manual: http://lodahl.blogspot.com/2007/12/now-its-getting-operational.html#c8036683144354266846

- Thank you for that Jesper.

Jesper claims that according to a technical report, it's clearly not realistic to do a clean ODF implementation in the public sector.

I must say that I'm disappointed with the project in the Danish IT- and Tele Agency. From the Parliament came a clear message: use open standards for exchanging office documents. But the Agency has managed to shave the decision down to "Use open standards or Microsoft for text documents- if you find it appropriate".

To Jesper I will say: the technical report you are referring to is taken out of its context. You know that this report is written based on a decision of dual standards. A situation where we know that to kinds of documents formats will live side by side. In this scenario there will be a lot of document conversion every day - from now and forever. If the decision had been one standard only, there would only be initial conversion of a lot of documents. Later on, conversion of documents would happen only rarely.

How come it's not realistic in Denmark when it already happens in France, Norway, Brazil and many other countries ? What is it that makes it different in Denmark ?

Whats up duck ?

I haven't been blogging that much lately. Sorry, but I feel rather busy at the moment.

• Busy trying to catch up with all the information floating around, both in the community but also regarding ODF and in the NOOOXML world.
• I have spent the last couple of days on a small travel to Aarhus ( http://www.findvej.dk/,8000 ). You know, I also need bread on the table ;-)
  
• Translation of 2.4 is going slowly forward. But we are still missing several hundred strings.
  
• Also preparing the next (December) edition of the Danish newsletter (expected to be out one of the first days in December). Sign up for it here: http://da.openoffice.org/servlets/SummarizeList?listName=nyhedsbrev (if you understand Danish)
  
• I am also trying to contribute to the new certification project and today I have submitted my comments to the Spanish syllabus (http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OOo_Certification_Syllabus). Please join the project here if you think you can contribute in any way. Sign up here: http://documentation.openoffice.org/servlets/SummarizeList?listName=certification
• And then I have been trying to plan how to approach the new Parliament after the election this month. Hmmm. I think we have to act on this very soon. I better get on with it, eh ?

And then of cause

• I promised my family to be present once in a while. On Saturday I think we will all go to the movie theater together. Perhaps I should ask my wife out for dinner too. Yes, this is a high priority task on the list :-)